I would also like to put a vote in for ferals. I am quite sure all of the points have been made back and forth already, but I really can't see why people would feel the need to object; this is a sex simulator for furries, by furries.
Outsiders would argue that we are all perverts, that the lines between the concepts of anthro erotica and zoophilia are extremely blurry - and they always have been in my mind.
We are all here to enjoy the fandom and the many different facets and sub-genre interests we all have and that exist within it, and now we get to do it in virtual reality, so it seems odd to argue the point to completely exclude a pretty mainstream and sizeable portion of the fanbase who enjoy seeing ferals (technical issues aside).
It's certainly not the weirdest thing in the furry world. At the very least, having a filter system would easily solve the problem for those individuals who prefer not to acknowledge that aspect.
The guidelines are quite ambiguous. Indeed, one could interpret these guidelines as being completely anti-pornography in general, with lines like this:
"Lastly, you cannot sell pornographic material or arrange sexual service(s) as a reward for your patrons. You can’t use Patreon to raise funds in order to produce pornographic material such as maintaining a website, funding the production of movies, or providing a private webcam session."
I think these lines are meant solely for real life pornography, rather than encompassing all pornography. It doesn't say that explicitly, but it is inferred given the context of sexual services, web cams, sites and movies - all things connected to real life rather than cartoons/animations. The wording is unfortunate, but at least the way I interpret it only real life sex is implicitly referred.
Higher up in those guidelines, you can find these lines:
"We have zero tolerance when it comes to the glorification of sexual violence which includes bestiality, rape, and child exploitation (i.e., sexualized depiction of minors). This is true for illustrated, animated, or any other type of content. Patreon reserves the right to review and remove accounts that may violate this guideline."
Again, I think these guidelines are ambiguous. Surely most feral-furry art you find of for example dragon-on-anthro doesn't glorify sexual violence, yet I think it would be considered bestiality. Would such content be disallowed on patreon? I don't know.
Nothing has really changed since before regarding us and ferals. Anthros are and will continue to be our foucs. There are no concrete plans to implement ferals at this point. That doesn't mean we have completely ruled them out though. However, if for example dragon on anthro is considered bestiality, and if all bestiality is considered "glorification of sexual violence" on patreon, then ferals is something we can't and won't implement into the app.
What I'm interested in right now is how patreon creators who are already dealing with ferals have been affected by these new guidelines. Is for example MLP stuff involving humans considered glorification of sexual violence, since that most likely could be defined as bestiality? Does anyone have any insight in this? How have such creators been affected?
Thanks Odes for replying with some very good and concise points. Indeed, those are quite legitimate concerns; the way they word it does leave it a little open to interpretation with regards to 'bestiality', which in itself is a bit of an inaccurate catch-all term for a subject containing some larger concepts and ideas these days, but I digress.
Would they consider a non-anthro dragon to be an animal and therefore subject to their bestiality definition? This is a question I myself was wondering.
You do raise a good point however with regards to other things on Patreon, such as the Besti MLP sex simulator. I would argue that this straddles the invisible line perfectly and is somewhat directly comparable to anthro-on-feral dragon. Not to mention the fact that it is human-on-feral, even (assuming sentient ponies are still to be considered feral because they walk on four legs and resemble a horse).
I'd be very surprised if something like that simply went under Patreon's radar. I would be curious to hear from somebody on that project as well. Is it possible to contact them directly?
oh ffs. I can't stand the use of "sentient" as if only humans, anthros and those fucking sucking ponies were...
Also bestiality is sexual violence?
Oh, I get it. Since you consider animals to be not sentient you are entitled to torture them however you wish but pleasuring yourself is bad as you "hurt" them or hurt their feelings.... this makes zero sense.
Animals ARE sentient. more so than insensitive fucking humans that are absurd enough to think of this shit.
And they can chose and so that means they can be consentient.
Edit: I didn't have time to reply fully previously, but @SpiritTheLoneWolf26.. I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at? You seem very angry about something but I can't pinpoint what. Initially I assumed you were against ferals being included and were angry at me for supporting the idea, judging from your response, however I realise now that you are the person who actually started the thread.
@Dogsbody again, as if only humans were sapient or self-aware.
ffs...
this is so fucked up.
I wanted this thread to just disappear but it is becoming worse and worse...
You've obviously grabbed the wrong end of the stick. You've picked one word out of my post and taken it in a completely unnecessary direction for no reason. I was merely referencing patreon's viewpoint about human-esque horses and I used the term self aware because they can talk and act like humans, animals do not do that. The fact that they are essentially horse people might make them appear less like animals to patreon's beastiality regulations and therefore not breach their terms and conditions. I suggest you re-read my posts and don't jump to your own conclusions by taking things out of context.
Once again, I was on your side for the inclusion of ferals.
@odes
Would tentacles themselves be something to consider down the line?
Also, the mlp thing is a good point, which makes me wonder if these anthros are allowed to be customizable enough where you'd be able to have them walk on all fours? Is there a way to contact Patreon about this?
@Dogsbody if all you said was Patreon's point of view and not your personal, you never explicited that. If it's like that I apologize but I also suggest you to pay more attention to how clear you write.
@SpiritTheLoneWolf26 well I did say that I wanted to put in a vote for ferals, I thought that gave an indication of my stance. All good though, don't worry about it.
Okay, I just want to make a simple post on this subject, I agree it should be a thing, I also agree with the ideal about the setback on it, However I feel like these setbacks should not be a problem, and has a pretty simple solution, I've seen lots of examples through mods that have worked out pretty well.
So make it an application. If people want it they'll pick up the app to have it, if people don't then they wont. So just make it a separate downloadable application that can be 'upgraded' to the game to unlock the feral feature. Then there is no excuse and no one can be mad if they have it or not or that it's even a thing, just host it through the website only or something, but you will be able to reach out to a much broader audience this way with little to no controversy about it.
fur·ry ˈfərē/
noun, informal, plural noun: furries:
an enthusiast for animal characters with human
characteristics, in particular a person who dresses up in costume as
such a character or uses one as an avatar online.
Emphasis on 'animal characters' here... when it says 'with human characteristic' it really doesn't mean actual human body parts or humanoid shape. It means human behavior, human emotions, human self awareness, beliefs and personality.
Human Characteristics: Places are jointly characterized by their physical and human properties. Their physical characteristics include landforms, climate, soils, and hydrology. Things such as language, religion, political systems, economic systems, and population distribution are examples of human characteristics.
So yes, when someone say they are Furry, it literally implies that they Like/Love/Adore/Fetish Animals that Acts or Thinks like humans. So as soon as you put Furry and Sex together, it implies 'Bestiality' so when someone says Furry to a non-furry fan. The first thing 90% of them thinks is Bestiality and/or Child pornography. It's sad, but us Furry fans are being judged by it and for it no matter what. Furry are pedophiles because it's just a loophole to bypass pedophile regulations using 'cubs', furry is bestiality in disguise... blah blah blah. But being a Furry is still and always will be a fiction and a fantasy. I would never, and I don't know any Furry who ever would actually have sex with a living animal, nor would I ever or know anyone who ever would have sex with a child.
You want to put a furry hater back in their place, here's how. People complain for no other reason than to complain. Of all the handful of people I've had the chance to debate the subject with in my life so far... I'd say a dozen, ALL of them, without exception had fetishes that I thought was much worse than being a Furry and I Managed to make most of them realized how and why. They didn't turn into Furries, but they stopped thinking it was 'discusting'. My main argument has always been to ask them if they liked TV shows or movies with furries. Funny how their first answer was always 'No', but after a few example when I asked... "Oh, so you didn't like The Raccouns growing up? or What about Avatar? or don't you like Chewbacca in Star Wars? and people simply come to realize that they did, one way or another, at one point in their life, had feelings for a 'Furry character' most of them if not all did have sexual desire for one or another. Try it, you'll see, almost everyone is a Furry to some level.
Furries are simply... EVERYWHERE.
The Racouns Maya the bee The Small Beaver (not sure they ever played that one in USA though) Felix the cat Felix and Chives My Little Ponies. The Carebears Avatar Mickey Mouse ... Bambi, Lion King, Kung Fu Panda, Zootopia, and so on and so on... Countless TV shows and movies had animated talking animals or puppets or humanoid versions of animals in them and as far as I know, it kept going and growing with years. Furries have always been more present in all of our lives than any other possible fetish, so who can blame anyone for becoming a Furry, yet too many people keeps seing it as discusting, simply because they're too blind to see that they too had fantasized about one furry character at one point or another and we're not even getting started with video-games....
Lets just take Disney. mostly all their movies, comics and TV Shows (for kids don't get me wrong) have a furry somewhere or an animal with a charming personality that would make most young horny teenager want to have as a girlfriend or boyfriend.
But... back to feral, I disagree with you SpiritTheLoneWolf26 when you says that its kind of hypocritical to be a furry and claim to dislike feral. It's like saying that someone who likes watching straight man on women porn would be hypocritical to dislike watching girl on girl stuff.
Some likes Kitties more than others, some likes Dragons, Reptiles, Some likes them chubby or fat, some likes them tiny, some likes huge ass, some likes huge breasts others are completely turned off by some or all of the above... there is nothing hypocritical about disliking Feral while claiming to be a Furry.
I think, whatever turns you on, turns you on and whatever turns you off, well... you get the point
SpiritTheLoneWolf26 you started this thread to manifest your desire for feral in Yiffalicious and it turned into a debate when it shouldn't have. I completely understand your point and I really didn't get the feeling that you were trying to push it in any ways, although you did get passionate about your desire to see it happen.
My opinion is that YES, it would be cool if YL2 offered Feral eventually, so I'm with you on that. Maybe if enough Patreon and Yiffalicious fans manifest their 'desire' for feral, it will happen eventually. Cool if it ever does. No worries if it doesn't.
@SainaHeart Oh my God! you made me realize... I'm a furry! Ok, now seriously, I agree 100% with your post. Anyway, as YL1 is finished, and YL2 still needs a year or two to be feature complete, I don't think this debate will be relevant for a long while. I mean, if they add ferals to YL2, I'm sure it will be after everything else is already done.
Ok, now I am really tired of this thread tho. And I know what they meant for "controversies", and they were right. It isn't furries or ferals on their own but the stupid peoples those topics attract. I am done.
Just going to go ahead and debunk the "ferals can't be on Patreon because da roolz" theory: https://www.patreon.com/VR_Ferals Although sadly, Ryan hasn't updated his Patreon in over a year so idk if this project will ever get anywhere. P.S.: Casting a vote for "yes" on ferals, although it seems you're not open to the idea. Que sera, sera.
Comments
That is just bad. I hope you are ashamed of yourself.
And we get you don't care about this topic but I do.
I do know that expression and I think it is just stupid.
And I thought this thread was inactive. I didn't think of getting back here...
Horses sound like a good/simple start, then maybe tentacles or exotic creaters like dragons.
I would also like to put a vote in for ferals. I am quite sure all of the points have been made back and forth already, but I really can't see why people would feel the need to object; this is a sex simulator for furries, by furries.
Outsiders would argue that we are all perverts, that the lines between the concepts of anthro erotica and zoophilia are extremely blurry - and they always have been in my mind.
We are all here to enjoy the fandom and the many different facets and sub-genre interests we all have and that exist within it, and now we get to do it in virtual reality, so it seems odd to argue the point to completely exclude a pretty mainstream and sizeable portion of the fanbase who enjoy seeing ferals (technical issues aside).
It's certainly not the weirdest thing in the furry world. At the very least, having a filter system would easily solve the problem for those individuals who prefer not to acknowledge that aspect.
Patreon recently made changes to their "community guidelines", which you can read about here:
https://patreonhq.com/checking-in-on-our-commitments-to-creators-about-trust-and-safety-8793a53c3cae
The actual guidelines themselves:
https://www.patreon.com/guidelines#adult-content
The guidelines are quite ambiguous. Indeed, one could interpret these guidelines as being completely anti-pornography in general, with lines like this:
I think these lines are meant solely for real life pornography, rather than encompassing all pornography. It doesn't say that explicitly, but it is inferred given the context of sexual services, web cams, sites and movies - all things connected to real life rather than cartoons/animations. The wording is unfortunate, but at least the way I interpret it only real life sex is implicitly referred.
Higher up in those guidelines, you can find these lines:
Again, I think these guidelines are ambiguous. Surely most feral-furry art you find of for example dragon-on-anthro doesn't glorify sexual violence, yet I think it would be considered bestiality. Would such content be disallowed on patreon? I don't know.
Nothing has really changed since before regarding us and ferals. Anthros are and will continue to be our foucs. There are no concrete plans to implement ferals at this point. That doesn't mean we have completely ruled them out though. However, if for example dragon on anthro is considered bestiality, and if all bestiality is considered "glorification of sexual violence" on patreon, then ferals is something we can't and won't implement into the app.
What I'm interested in right now is how patreon creators who are already dealing with ferals have been affected by these new guidelines. Is for example MLP stuff involving humans considered glorification of sexual violence, since that most likely could be defined as bestiality? Does anyone have any insight in this? How have such creators been affected?
Thanks Odes for replying with some very good and concise points. Indeed, those are quite legitimate concerns; the way they word it does leave it a little open to interpretation with regards to 'bestiality', which in itself is a bit of an inaccurate catch-all term for a subject containing some larger concepts and ideas these days, but I digress.
Would they consider a non-anthro dragon to be an animal and therefore subject to their bestiality definition? This is a question I myself was wondering.
You do raise a good point however with regards to other things on Patreon, such as the Besti MLP sex simulator. I would argue that this straddles the invisible line perfectly and is somewhat directly comparable to anthro-on-feral dragon. Not to mention the fact that it is human-on-feral, even (assuming sentient ponies are still to be considered feral because they walk on four legs and resemble a horse).
I'd be very surprised if something like that simply went under Patreon's radar. I would be curious to hear from somebody on that project as well. Is it possible to contact them directly?
oh ffs. I can't stand the use of "sentient" as if only humans, anthros and those fucking sucking ponies were...
Also bestiality is sexual violence?
Oh, I get it. Since you consider animals to be not sentient you are entitled to torture them however you wish but pleasuring yourself is bad as you "hurt" them or hurt their feelings.... this makes zero sense.
Animals ARE sentient. more so than insensitive fucking humans that are absurd enough to think of this shit.
And they can chose and so that means they can be consentient.
Edit: I didn't have time to reply fully previously, but @SpiritTheLoneWolf26.. I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at? You seem very angry about something but I can't pinpoint what. Initially I assumed you were against ferals being included and were angry at me for supporting the idea, judging from your response, however I realise now that you are the person who actually started the thread.
@Dogsbody again, as if only humans were sapient or self-aware.
ffs...
this is so fucked up.
I wanted this thread to just disappear but it is becoming worse and worse...
Once again, I was on your side for the inclusion of ferals.
@odes
Would tentacles themselves be something to consider down the line?
Also, the mlp thing is a good point, which makes me wonder if these anthros are allowed to be customizable enough where you'd be able to have them walk on all fours? Is there a way to contact Patreon about this?
@Dogsbody if all you said was Patreon's point of view and not your personal, you never explicited that. If it's like that I apologize but I also suggest you to pay more attention to how clear you write.
@SpiritTheLoneWolf26 It's absolutely clear to me that we are discussing how to interpret Patreon's guidelines. Your rant is staggeringly misdirected.
@odes it wasn't clear why he was using those words...
yeah, sorry @Dogsbody
All well, lets forget it and move on.
my apologies to you too, @odes and yes, let's move on.
@SpiritTheLoneWolf26 @Dogsbody
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
So make it an application. If people want it they'll pick up the app to have it, if people don't then they wont. So just make it a separate downloadable application that can be 'upgraded' to the game to unlock the feral feature. Then there is no excuse and no one can be mad if they have it or not or that it's even a thing, just host it through the website only or something, but you will be able to reach out to a much broader audience this way with little to no controversy about it.
hopefully, they are gonna do that.
So yes, when someone say they are Furry, it literally implies that they Like/Love/Adore/Fetish Animals that Acts or Thinks like humans. So as soon as you put Furry and Sex together, it implies 'Bestiality' so when someone says Furry to a non-furry fan. The first thing 90% of them thinks is Bestiality and/or Child pornography. It's sad, but us Furry fans are being judged by it and for it no matter what. Furry are pedophiles because it's just a loophole to bypass pedophile regulations using 'cubs', furry is bestiality in disguise... blah blah blah. But being a Furry is still and always will be a fiction and a fantasy. I would never, and I don't know any Furry who ever would actually have sex with a living animal, nor would I ever or know anyone who ever would have sex with a child.
You want to put a furry hater back in their place, here's how.
People complain for no other reason than to complain. Of all the handful of people I've had the chance to debate the subject with in my life so far... I'd say a dozen, ALL of them, without exception had fetishes that I thought was much worse than being a Furry and I Managed to make most of them realized how and why. They didn't turn into Furries, but they stopped thinking it was 'discusting'. My main argument has always been to ask them if they liked TV shows or movies with furries. Funny how their first answer was always 'No', but after a few example when I asked... "Oh, so you didn't like The Raccouns growing up? or What about Avatar? or don't you like Chewbacca in Star Wars? and people simply come to realize that they did, one way or another, at one point in their life, had feelings for a 'Furry character' most of them if not all did have sexual desire for one or another. Try it, you'll see, almost everyone is a Furry to some level.
Furries are simply... EVERYWHERE.
The Racouns
Maya the bee
Felix the cat
Felix and Chives
The Carebears
Avatar
Mickey Mouse
... Bambi, Lion King, Kung Fu Panda, Zootopia, and so on and so on...
Countless TV shows and movies had animated talking animals or puppets or humanoid versions of animals in them and as far as I know, it kept going and growing with years. Furries have always been more present in all of our lives than any other possible fetish, so who can blame anyone for becoming a Furry, yet too many people keeps seing it as discusting, simply because they're too blind to see that they too had fantasized about one furry character at one point or another and we're not even getting started with video-games....
Lets just take Disney. mostly all their movies, comics and TV Shows (for kids don't get me wrong) have a furry somewhere or an animal with a charming personality that would make most young horny teenager want to have as a girlfriend or boyfriend.
But... back to feral, I disagree with you SpiritTheLoneWolf26 when you says that its kind of hypocritical to be a furry and claim to dislike feral. It's like saying that someone who likes watching straight man on women porn would be hypocritical to dislike watching girl on girl stuff.
Some likes Kitties more than others, some likes Dragons, Reptiles, Some likes them chubby or fat, some likes them tiny, some likes huge ass, some likes huge breasts others are completely turned off by some or all of the above... there is nothing hypocritical about disliking Feral while claiming to be a Furry.
I think, whatever turns you on, turns you on and whatever turns you off, well... you get the point
SpiritTheLoneWolf26 you started this thread to manifest your desire for feral in Yiffalicious and it turned into a debate when it shouldn't have. I completely understand your point and I really didn't get the feeling that you were trying to push it in any ways, although you did get passionate about your desire to see it happen.
My opinion is that YES, it would be cool if YL2 offered Feral eventually, so I'm with you on that. Maybe if enough Patreon and Yiffalicious fans manifest their 'desire' for feral, it will happen eventually. Cool if it ever does. No worries if it doesn't.
Ok, now seriously, I agree 100% with your post.
Anyway, as YL1 is finished, and YL2 still needs a year or two to be feature complete, I don't think this debate will be relevant for a long while. I mean, if they add ferals to YL2, I'm sure it will be after everything else is already done.
And I know what they meant for "controversies", and they were right.
It isn't furries or ferals on their own but the stupid peoples those topics attract.
I am done.
https://www.patreon.com/VR_Ferals
Although sadly, Ryan hasn't updated his Patreon in over a year so idk if this project will ever get anywhere.
P.S.: Casting a vote for "yes" on ferals, although it seems you're not open to the idea. Que sera, sera.
thanks...