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[Issue?] Triangle limit is worse?

As stated in the patch notes
* Increased triangle limit to 100,000.

(NOTE! Previously, character body triangles were not included in calculation, so the amount of extra triangles as compared to before is only around 5k.
However, I think the addition of the Anus may not have been considered, because right now many of my characters who I will be needing to update are over 100k, usually at 105k-120k.

Which means, to some extent, the available triangle we previously could have is now less.

--

I remember the triangle count was false at one point, so you guys made a patch that made it true, making some of my characters over the limit (But not by too much).

Now, it happened again and this time over by worryingly much (5k-20k extra triangles). So much so that a lot of my excessive fluff usage has been nerfed and many of my characters will require a lot of fluff removal if I were to update them :(

Of course, this mostly just affects me (I think), but im questioning if we got Extra triangles, or not. My characters are an evidence that its the latter (Latter being, we got less triangles to play with). How else would I upload them before this new update?

I dont know, im just informing that I now have less triangles to play with, not more. And, that maybe the Anus increased the Body triangle count more than you thought or something. Just looking for clarification as to what might have changed to have many of my characters triangle count increase over the limit.

Comments

  • odesodes Administrator
    Previously, a blank character took 5,632 / 50,000.

    Now, a blank character takes 51,474 / 100,000.

    50,000 - 5,632 = 44,368
    100,000 - 51,474 = 48,526

    I.e. you should have 4,158 verts more. (For the default, blank character.)

    More changes have been introduced though. Any triangles from skinned mesh was not included in calculation before. Now they are. That's probably why there is such a big difference in triangles in your case.

    These limits are not set in stone. We just don't want to promise too much. Rather promise too little than too much.

    I'm not sure how we could go from here though, but I'm open to suggestions.
  • edited April 4
    Not sure what a skinned mesh is (Shows you my 3D program knowledge) , in a way, that is less uses for triangles then.

    I will try to adapt, but my initial impression is that the numbers have now inflated, but the practical limitation is more limited than before. We get more Verts, but we also use up even more verts now. So it did not proportionally rise with previous limitations, it got smaller significantly (Practically speaking).

    I honestly do not know how to suggest anything better since im not that big into 3D tech, all I do understand is that the Triangle count is now more clear (Since everything now is accounted for). But compared to the previous limitation, this is more limited (In terms of triangles at least) since it now counts for more triangles, if ya get what I mean.


    But Practically speaking, this does mean you cant use as much fluff as that is what Ive detected to have made my characters go up in triangles. But I cant say the same for other peoples styles. I will go over some other peoples characters and do more triangle research :P

  • edited April 5
    OK... I am convinced that fluff (as a consequence to the new triangle count changes) has become more expensive.

    I was looking at characters with high model counts, these guys got the best of this new update, but fluffed characters seem to edge in on the limit.

    Then I find @Kittysasha 's Vera with a whopping 160k triangles.

    She is a fairly simple character that managed to get uploaded previously, now, there is no way she would be updated or uploaded unless heavy nerfs on the FLUFF, and not the models (Tried deleting stuff to see the difference). Just deleting the fluff on the Tail however, brought her 160k triangle count down to 97k.

    That is a huge difference, and it does not seem like there were THAT many fluff to make the count go 70k up.

    So literally, its just, or mostly fluff that got hit with these changes.

    So im looking for characters with a lot of fluff now, and it consistently yields the same results.

    Fabienne 170k triangles due to fluff
    Apollonia 90k (Funnily enough) but that is without any of the disabled models.
    A lot of my characters who are very simple reach 80-90k due to fluff but that might be expected. So then maybe its the fluff on the tail?

    Loaded up Haffr to see her 114k count, despite having lots of fluff. Took off the fluff on the tail, 8k down. But the NeckFluff Appendage group BRRRR 20k+ triangles down.

    So now im gonna have to see how much a fluff makes the triangles go up. In size, and where... oh jeeze.
  • edited April 5
    1 fluff on the body, standard, is 10 triangles.
    1 maximum size fluff on body is 80+ or so. (Only Length seems to affect it)
    Mask alphas dont change it.

    Oh and, mirrored doubles it (as expected).

    Added a fox tail to add fluff on
    1 Fluff on tail results to about 10 triangles
    1 Max size fluff adds to about 80+

    60 fluff on tail raised to about 10 triangles each (600)
    However, I noticed something here.

    Scale with Source is enabled, you can barely make out fluff on the tail with it. So what we usually do is then size them up. Right?

    60 full sized fluff on the tail resulted in like 5k triangles.

    Disabling "ScalewithSource" makes the fluff appropriate size (before resizing it) and does not give extra triangles. So there is a mistake that we happen to make.
    We scale up the fluff on the tail because it appears small when applied to the tail. "ScalewithSource" disabled would fix it and make it more feesable to add fluff on the tail without high triangle counts, however, I suspect that having the "Scale with Source" disabled will have a future negative consequence. (Something to do with intereactions maybe? I dont know. Would help clarify what "ScalewithSource" does to the fluff later down the line).

    Anyways, now I need to figure out why Haffr has a huge 20k triangle count on body fluff.
    Re-sizing down the fluff on Haffr significantly reduced the triangle count.
    When deleting the fluff, the most significant to delete were the large ones, sadly.


    So, my lesson for now is to be weary of LARGE fluffs in large numbers, but big fluffs do not need to be that big in order to impact the triangle count significantly. You are essentially scaling the fluff to be larger than normal, resulting in what used to be a single fluff costing 10 triangles, into a single fluff that is a bit larger costing maybe 30 triangles. Just the 20 extra triangles will add up significantly when added in many numbers + mirrored.


    So if anything, the cost for fluff skyrocketed by... I dont know, by enough to make me cry :(
    hehe
  • odesodes Administrator
    Thanks for pointing that out regarding scale with source. There is a problem in the scale of the armature for fox, maybe for more tails. I'll have dogson go through it since it is his responsibility.

    If you uncheck scale with source, you can get regular sized fins.

    Note that you can use resolution slider to reduce the amount of triangles in fluff. Use as low setting as you can w/o it affecting the look.
  • edited April 5
    Woah! I did not know that, Il give the resolution one a whirl.

    Also, most or all tails give very small fluff unless you disable "Scale with source" option.
    But it may not be a "Tail" only issue, but its not much of an issue if leaving "scalewithsource" off wont mess with anything outside of character creation.
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