Bone positions dont save correctly

Sevvie

Hello,

Ive made a pose, saved it, and published it. However, upon loading the pose it seems the bone positions have changed. I have tried overwriting my save numerous times to fix the issue, but the bone positions seem to go back to this glitched version. I have even tried renaming my save instead of overwriting.

During save:
http://imgur.com/x56MREZ,jg6Isxq#1

After loading:
http://imgur.com/x56MREZ,jg6Isxq#0

Hope this issue can be resolved. (YIFFALICIOUS BUILD 0.1f)

odes

Hi Sevvie!

If you drag control to 1 and save again (when the pose is fixed), does that change anything?

If it does, can you please send me the fixed .yiff-file (located in %appdata%/yiffalicious/interactions/local).

odes

I took a look at your pose. There's circular dependency in it, so that will mess things up. Better circular dependency detection and prevention is something I'm planning to add later.

Basically you've parented the foot to its own upper hierarchy, through the hand of the horse. This is shouldn't be allowed and will cause a circular dependency. 

What is a circular dependency?

A circular dependency is a self-referential hierarchy that cannot be solved. Think of it this way:

1. Imagine a hand is supposed to be in a certain spot. This spot is called "target".
   
2. Now imagine a character trying to reach this spot.
   
3. To reach this spot, the upper arm, lower arm and hands need to be affected.
   
4. Now imagine that this target is parented to the upper arm. I.e., if the arm is moved or rotated, so will the target.
   
5. So what happens? Well, as the arm is moved to reach the target, and the target is parented to the arm, then the target will move too.
   
6. It becomes a never-ending chase because this criteria cannot be fulfilled.
   

If you unparent the foot it should work better. A tip is to use the physics IK if you want the foot to feel more "alive".

Sevvie

Thanks for the explanation! Ill go ahead and fix my rig. Ive done a lot with Unity 3D, but Inverse Kinematics is something I haven't touched yet so I don't fully understand it yet. Mainly because I simply suck at anything physics related.

I would also assume circular dependency will also arise when trying to parent both actor's hands to each others shoulders? So far no issues, but based on what you said earlier I would guess that unexpected behavior might arise as well.

Either way, loving the game so far.

odes

Parenting a characters hands to his/her own shoulders would cause a circular dependency. Doing it directly won't work. A message will show saying it is disallowed. But you'd still be able to do it through another character.

Thanks man, means a lot to hear that!

Sevvie

Gotcha. Also something I noticed... All of my snapshot transitions seems to be getting screwed up. Upon saving, then loading, appearing at random, some of my old transitions will no longer link to the correct one specified before re-loading the save. This has affected my published poses in the same way as when I load them from the cloud I get mixed up transitions. Clicking the "Yes" to the prompt to reset to first snapshot seems to be one of the causes that reproduces an issue 100% of the time. I cannot find the other, as it appears to be at random.

I have tagged all of my uploads with "sevvie" so they will be easy to find.

odes

Can you be more detailed? Which snapshots are wrong, in what interactions?

Sevvie

I'll go get some screen recording software and record a video. Would be the easiest way to explain it. Basically whenever I save, then load the interaction in any way, some of the transitions become linked to the wrong ones randomly. There is no definite "Snapshot #1 no longer links to Snapshot #2, but now links to #4". Some times they link to ones further down in the list, sometimes they link to themselves, and some times they link to nothing. Its seemingly random.

Sevvie

Here you go... Name of my pose was "All Pent Up" if you take at a look at the interactions: (Again, pose can be found by searching my name as a tag)

"You Sure?" -> "Idle"
"Yes Damit" -> "Yes Damit"
"Oh..." -> "Oh..."

I did not make those transistions... it should be one after another as if it was in sequential order in the list. Not only that, but the transistions are linking to themselves, which it appears is not a desired behaviour given the fact that the same snapshot does not show up in the list of transitions when choosing one. That alone should be an example for you. I have not have had any issues with it recently, but thats proof that its being changed when saving the thing / publishing it.

odes

It's not that I disbelieve you, I just had hard time reproducing the bug. But I managed to do it now.

If you reorder items the linking will be improperly saved (and thus improerly loaded as well).

Thank you so much for sharing this! This is an important fix.

odes

Btw, that is how you did it, right? Because that's the only way I've managed to reproduce it.

Sevvie

I do know that I DID re-order them in the past. I have not re-ordered snapshots with any of my newer ones, which kind of explains why I have not had any issues recently.

I will keep that in mind when doing my snapshots now.